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Talk:Jacob: The Gift of Greatness
Can Jacob Kill The article says you can have Jacob kill his father. I did the renegade pure run through the mission, and even if you recommend to kill him, Jacob will give his father a half charged gun, which he uses to kill himself. So: Can Jacob really kill his father? -- 03:16, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :I'll have to wait until I go through the game again (still working on first playthrough), but I think that the none-speech check renegade option tells Jacob to kill him instead of "not wasting" the ammo because "he's not worth it." --ArmeniusLOD 03:26, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :: When it says "Jacob kills his father" it means giving his father the gun to kill himself. It was just worded wrong.Elamdri 03:47, February 4, 2010 (UTC) Codex contradiction? I'm just basing this on story not gameplay; The Thermal Clip codex entry presents the information that thermal clips are a recent development, so how does a ship like the Hugo Gernsback that has been "lost" for 10 years have weapons that use "thermal clips".CyanDeadEye 19:52, February 15, 2010 (UTC) : Same way geth armatures dropped medigel in ME1 - it's a loot drop mechanic and not a storytelling device. There isn't much reason for Collectors (much less husks) to drop clips either - but they do, because that's the only mechanics for replenishing clips that's available to the player. The game only lets you carry about five reloads per weapon at any given time, and that's not enough to finish a mission. So the game simply must provide a steady supply of clips throughout the mission - because otherwise you won't be able to progress and will get stuck (and in ME2, you can't abort a mission either). So it's a kind of discrepancy, but I wouldn't call it a "discontinuity" - I'm pretty sure that "canonically" those mechs weren't using thermal clips. Think of it as Joker dropping them down for you as you go. -tmk 12:27, May 10, 2010 (UTC) : It could be not lore-breaking. Simply in that time there could be thermal-clip guns and old-style guns (which both need supply to produce little bullets). Mechs also could exist but weren't common. This page says that the geth developed thermal clips. So we can explain their existence that their development had started with quarians, so when they were forced into exile, they used/sold this technology, but it wasn't common because of quarian reputation. Also, Collector's assault rifle adapted for humans uses thermal clips (so, it used somewhat like it originally) and the prothean rifle uses cooldown. So, I don't see lore-breaking in thermal clips/mechs/non-omnigel locks in the past - I see it only in first-aid kits in geth/geth ships.--EditorOak (talk) 08:33, November 5, 2012 (UTC) Lost Reference? I was surprised that no one had mentioned the possible easter egg tying this mission to the Lost tv show. Plane crash, deserted island, Jacob is the god figure, etc. 19:04, April 5, 2010 (UTC) I think its probably a reference to the Twilight Zone episode "On Thursday We Leave for Home". YMIR Mech The YMIR mech is physically incapable of leaving the clearing in the 360 version of the game, it will hit an invisible barrier and strafe at the opening behind the wall that gives you cover initially without ever pursuing you. This is easily verified through running the mission yourself and retreating back out past the first aid kit on the wall and trying to lure it out (it cannot leave the clearing under any circumstances). Mictlantecuhtli 21:23, June 14, 2010 (UTC) :I have run through the mission, this one now 19 times. I also wrote the majority of the walkthough, check if you don't believe me. I put will not because I don't know if there is a barrier there or the mech just won't puruse outside the clearing. Cannot leaves just a few explainations, with the the barrier explanation being at the top. This article has had the will not since I put it in there back in Februray, and no one but you seems to have a problem with it. Will not imples multiple possibilities, cannot just a few explainations. Saying there is a barrier is speculation and having will not implies that there are other possiblites, outside the game engine that are the reason, which is your focus. Lancer1289 21:30, June 14, 2010 (UTC) ::Since it can't physically leave the clearing, I would call that a barrier. My rephrasing was perfectly acceptable regardless of if it's a barrier or a behavior thing with the mech. If you want to nitpick over a liberal use of the term barrier, and a few words that imply it can somehow leave the clearing feel free. I won't change it back, but this talk point is here to let people know it cannot leave the clearing under any circumstances. Mictlantecuhtli 23:09, June 14, 2010 (UTC) :::I think that Lancer's wording makes that point clear enough... —ArmeniusLOD 02:42, June 15, 2010 (UTC) ::::Since it hasn't been stated when the mechs were made, we should remove the contradiction.--Mike Gilbert 02:38, July 19, 2012 (UTC) Image formatting A corrective edit I made was reverted, I wanted to let SpartHawg948 know the revert was inappropriate. The image was supposed to be a mouseover caption, but the editing toolbox kit uses "File:" to insert images, causing a sub-text caption if "|thumb" is present. Use "Code View" to see what I mean. Please use "Image:" without "|thumb" to make it mouseover caption without a white border box like the rest, as I had originally left it. --Civil Protection C13-06A 07:12, August 7, 2010 (UTC)User:SpartHawg948 :I beg your pardon? Inappropriate? Under what set of standards or guidelines? Certainly not those of this wiki. The image was intentionally formatted the way it was so you don't have to mouse over it to see the caption. Before you go calling other peoples edits 'inappropriate', maybe you should familiarize yourself with the standards of the wiki you are editing at. SpartHawg948 07:20, August 7, 2010 (UTC) ::Er, I think he means he was correcting his error. Prior to his first edit, no images on the page were thumbs with captions. By undoing his second edit, you undid his attempt to make the image back into a caption-less thumb. Personally, I think the caption looks a bit out of place. -- Dammej (talk) 07:32, August 7, 2010 (UTC) :::No, it's pretty clear what he meant. He says a 'corrective edit' he made was reverted, and calls the revert (i.e. my edit) inappropriate. I for one have no problem with the caption. I think it's kind of nice having the picture of the pivotal moment displayed with a somewhat dramatic caption. That's just my opinion though. I won't, however, be lectured to about impropriety by someone who has no idea of what they speak. A little bit of diplomacy goes a long way, and coming right out and saying 'what you did was inappropriate' when it was nothing of the sort is not diplomatic. SpartHawg948 07:35, August 7, 2010 (UTC) ::No worries, mate. :) I am sorry if you took offense, as none was intended. I think Dammej got what I was meant. --Civil Protection C13-06A 08:01, August 7, 2010 (UTC) Fair enough. No harm done, and we'll just chalk this one up to a harmless misunderstanding. Good times. :) SpartHawg948 08:08, August 7, 2010 (UTC) I don't understand What exactly happened on this mission? What did Jacob's dad do? I've played this three times now and I still don't get what's going on no matter how hard I try. :Jacob's dad went nutso with power, forced the non-officers of the ship to eat the tainted local food, which turned them into intellectual five year-olds, had the officers fix the beacon, assigned the female dumbed-down crew members to officers as "pets", then when the beacon was fixed, had all the other officers killed. Then, instead of activating the beacon and getting everyone out of there, he sat around and played God (complete with that lovely idol we saw in the camp) until things got tough and he wanted out. It's all pretty clearly stated. Abuse, murder, all that good stuff. SpartHawg948 03:51, August 16, 2010 (UTC) :Oh, and he brain-washed a bunch of people (his human bodyguards) and was therefor responsible for their deaths at the hands of Shepard and company. Is that all, or did I miss anything else? SpartHawg948 03:54, August 16, 2010 (UTC) : :Thanks for the quick reply...Didn't expect to see one so early. But yeah I think that's all :Poor Jacob :( he dun love his dad no more Who turned on the beacon One thing I don't get: If Ronald Taylor is busy playing god, then who turned on the distress beacon? — Pepoluan 04:54, September 28, 2010 (UTC) :He did. "Playing god" isn't really a job with set hours or anything, nor do you have to stay in the same place at all times to do it. I'm sure he could make the time to wander down and turn on the beacon. And if he personally couldn't be troubled to flip the switch, he could certainly have ordered one of his brainwashed bodyguards or a mech to do it. SpartHawg948 04:56, September 28, 2010 (UTC) Ronald TAlor, he may have been playing god but when things got tough and hunters tried to kill him he bailed. * He basically had enough food rations from the crashed ship to last ten years (don't ask me how that stuff didn't spoil), so he made his crew eat food from the planet until they went insane and he could control them. However, once ten years were up he called for help rather than having to eat the native food and go crazy himself —Lalala la 05:29, January 10, 2011 (UTC) ::I can tell you how it didn't spoil. It was packaged. Canned food lasts for a long, long time. Ditto for preserves, and prepared rations last even longer than that. The MREs that the US military uses are still perfectly edible after 10 years, though the recommended shelf life is 5 years, and can be less depending on the temperature they are stored at. The minimum acceptable shelf life for an MRE, when stored at higher than normal temperatures (81 degrees F), is 3 1/2 years. If we can make food right now (or ten years ago, for that matter) that doesn't spoil in a decade, I have no doubt that they can make rations that last at least that long in the ME universe. SpartHawg948 05:44, January 10, 2011 (UTC) Anders/Name drop Okay, I've added this twice, and it's been removed for different reasons. However, there's a trivia note on the Horizon mission page that says almost exactly the same thing (in fact, seeing the note on Horizon was what made me think to add to the wiki), though it mentions a different character. I'd like to know why that note was included, if mine is unacceptable. Edits in question (second is a revision of the first): "During the confrontation with Ronald Taylor, another officer by the name of Anders is mentioned. The name is shared with a character in both BioWare's Dragon Age: Origins (specifically the Awakening expansion), and Dragon Age II." "During the confrontation with Ronald Taylor, another officer by the name of Anders is mentioned. This could be a reference to the character from BioWare's Dragon Age series." Reasons for removal (first note applies to the first version, second to the revision): "Name trivia, and that is not classified as trivia" You just called it trivia, so what else, exactly, would it be? "Requires developer confirmation that this is not merely coincidence." It's not stated as fact, so there should be no issue. Note from the Horizon's trivia section: "Speaking with the mechanic, he says that a colonist named Sten was kidnapped in the Collector attack on Horizon. This could be a reference to the character Sten from BioWare's Dragon Age: Origins." I might just be feeling bitchy about having my comment removed, but I honestly don't agree with either reason for it. It gives me the impression that this wiki is absurdly strict about edits; understandable in regard to ME3, what with speculation running rampant, but it seems overly harsh here. And, frankly, if you're going to require references for little stuff like this, or just plain not allow it, then the entire wiki needs a massive cleanup: I took a quick look around and found several other bits of trivia that don't meet either requirement. :First watch your language as we don't have a need for it. Second, I should also point out that this would require dev confirmation as Awakening was released after Mass Effect 2 was released. Mass Effect 2 was released on January 26, 2010 and Awakening was released on March 16, 2010. Since it was released afterwards, this kind of trivia would require dev confirmation because of it. I should also point out that name trivia like that does require further confirmaiton anyway as name trivia is not classified as trivia because of the commonality of names. So please get that dev confirmation, otherwise it isn't trivia. Lancer1289 14:59, June 9, 2011 (UTC) ::Wait, but was the Sten bit ever confirmed? --kiadony 15:31, June 9, 2011 (UTC) :::I'm not aware of any confirmation about Sten anywhere. On a side note, saying "feeling bitchy" is hardly an offensive language. — Teugene (Talk) 15:43, June 9, 2011 (UTC) ::::I don't think the Sten bit was confirmed either, but it has more support than this does as it references a game that was released before Mass Effect 2 was. At the same time, I honestly don't care whether it stays or not as it is just a name drop. ::::As to the language comment, it is still against the CG to say things like that, especially when there are plenty of alternatives. Lancer1289 15:51, June 9, 2011 (UTC) :My apologies, I didn't think the term would be an issue. Thank you for confirming so promptly, and that being the case, I hope you will consider reviewing at least some of the wiki's trivia, to ensure that it meets those requirements and that no one else gets confused about what can or cannot be added. ::(edit conflict)The thing on Jack's page is a quote, and as such, it is copied verbatim from the game. If it wasn't verbatim, then it would be a different story. However, anyone is of course free to challenge a piece of trivia in an article on its relevant talk page as some trivia items just get overlooked after a while. If you feel that isn't trivia material, then take up the issue on the Talk:Horizon (mission) page. I stated that I really don't care if it gets removed, but at the same time, I really don't see a need to remove it. That is not a double standard, I just haven't heard a convincing argument to remove it yet. Lancer1289 16:20, June 9, 2011 (UTC) :::Well, I'm going to go ahead and remove the Sten trivia from that article for the same reason I removed the Anders trivia here: we've got no developer confirmation that the use of the name "Sten" is anything more than a coincidence, especially since ME2's Sten makes no appearance in the game and there's no way to compare him to Dragon Age's Sten. The only reason I haven't done so before now is I don't believe I was aware the trivia existed. -- Commdor (Talk) 16:30, June 9, 2011 (UTC) ::::And that was a convincing argument. Lancer1289 16:34, June 9, 2011 (UTC) ::I understand about the Jack thing, which is why I edited my comment. That, and I realized after I posted that it could be seen as argumentative, which was not my intention. I'm sorry if it offended you, I just didn't realize it could be taken that way quickly enough. ::I only suggested going through some of the articles because users who may not be aware of all the regulations for edits here might get an incorrect impression as to what is allowed when they view other articles. I will admit, it was a mistake on my part to edit the article without reading the full guide, or at least the relevant portions, but after noticing the Sten bit I figured it was fine. Clearly this was incorrect, but a quick look to ensure that at least the more popular pages on the wiki all follow the rules could prevent similar mistakes being made in the future. ::I'm not offended, nor did I take it as offense. You make a point, which wasn’t argumentative, and a clear one at that, but there are different rules for things like that. ::As to trivia items, trivia is usually a case by case basis, and there are only four admins for almost 1,900 articles. We can't read everyone and usually attention is drawn to an article either by it's talk page, or a direct edit to it. Sometimes we are reading something and catch something, but we can't be everywhere, which is why there are talk pages, and whatnot. Anyone is free to challenge trivia, but at the same time, it is again usually a case by case basis based upon factors including, but not limited to, relevance to the article, sourcing of information, guidelines, whether or not the matter is trivial, and subjectivity (visual comparison, personal opitions, etc.). Lancer1289 17:03, June 9, 2011 (UTC) :::I'm glad you didn't take offense, and thanks again for responding so promptly, as well as for taking the time to do so. I think I'll have a look at some of Jack's lines later, as well, just to see if I can come up with any other suggestions. The quote certainly fits her, but it is a rather prominent spot, and one without questionable language might be better. BioWare has a habit of frequently reusing certain character names. And in this particular case, the reference to Dragon Age is actually incorrect. I clearly remember noticing that there was an NPC called Ander in Neverwinter Nights (there was also one called Reegar and another one called Geth, but I digress), and I'm pretty sure there was another Ander or Anders in Baldur's Gate. So, really, it's the Dragon Age Anders that's a name drop, in this situation, especially since Awakening came out after ME2. If you were going to keep the reference as Trivia in this particular article, you'd have to cite the older games as source. Not that it's important, but I just thought I'd clarify things. Nilfalasiel 15:18, October 14, 2011 (UTC) :Except if you had looked at the article, you would have seen that the trivia was removed when this discuss took place over four months ago. Lancer1289 16:55, October 14, 2011 (UTC) Yes, I realise that. Notice that I didn't say this trivia should be included, but simply giving another reason why it shouldn't, if the discussion is ever brought back up. And I have looked at the article...it's why I commented on this discussion in the first place. Nilfalasiel 17:15, October 14, 2011 (UTC) Content of the distress signal during scanning I finished the mission and moved on before it occurred to me to ask, but don't these articles usually contain the message verbatim in the distress beacon when scanning the planet? I can't find the audio file for the message, but if you tell me how to find it, I'll be more than happy to transcribe it. predcon 00:40, February 10, 2012 (UTC)